Apostasy: No punishment in the Quran

By Syed Akbar Ali

 Muslims say that the Quran was revealed to the Prophet. Muslims also say that the Quran represents the true teachings of the Prophet. So here is a true teaching of the Prophet in the Quran :

Surah 4:137 "Surely, those who believe, then disbelieve, then believe, then disbelieve, then plunge deeper into disbelief, Allah will not forgive them, nor will He guide them in any way."

This true teaching of the Prophet in the Quran proves that there is no punishment of any sort for apostasy in the Quran. If it is any punishment Allah will not forgive or guide such a person. The verse describes a person who believes, then disbelieves, then believes, then disbelieves and then continues in disbelief.  

There cannot be a death penalty because he or she can only move in and out belief like this if he is alive throughout this process.   There is no death penalty for apostasy mentioned in this verse or anywhere else in the Quran.

The punishment of death for apostasy is written in the Old Testament of the Bible (which I know modern day christians do not follow anymore). Here it is :

Deuteronomy 13:6-11 

“If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter or the wife you embrace or your friend who is as your own soul entices you secretly, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which neither you nor your fathers have known, some of the gods of the peoples who are around you, whether near you or far off from you, from the one end of the earth to the other, you shall not yield to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him. But you shall kill him. Your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. You shall stone him to death with stones.."
 

The Muslims say that the christians are the Ahli Kitab or People of the Book. Quite obviously because the christians read the Kitab aka the Bible. 

About the people of the Book (Ahli Kitab) the Quran warns the Muslims : 

Surah 3:100-101  "O you who believe, if you obey some of those who received the scripture, they will revert you, after having believed, into disbelievers.  How can you disbelieve, when these revelations of Allah have been recited to you, and His messenger has come to you? Whoever holds fast to Allah will be guided in the right path."
So Muslims, "how can you disbelieve, when these revelations of Allah have been recited to you"?

What revelations ?

Surah 4:137 "Surely, those who believe, then disbelieve, then believe, then disbelieve, then plunge deeper into disbelief, Allah will not forgive them, nor will He guide them in any way."

Subjek : The Creator

Petikan dari blog OutSyed The Box.
Syed Akbar, Capt. Sudhir & Adi...

 Capt Sudhir said...

We all evolved from a single cell. Nobody "created" us as a complete woman or man. The earth is more than 4.3 billion years old.

There are enough empirical evidence for this.

Every person on Earth shares 99.9% of the same genetic code; only 0.1% of our genetic make-up differs.

Mouse and man share 99% genetic similarity - including the genes to make a tail. Humans and mice shared a common ancestor about 100 million years ago. A mouse has about the same number of genes as a man. Due to preserved genetic similarities, even after 530 million years of separation, introduced human genes can operate within the Fruit Fly genome.

The nematode worm shares many genes with human beings, including the genes to make muscle. Puffer fish and Zebra fish are so genetically similar to human beings that their genomes are being deciphered as ‘model’ organisms for research.

The California purple sea urchin (Strongylocentrotus purpuratus) genome has 23,300 genes, of which 7077 are shared with human beings.
The dog genome also reveals many shared genes and diseases with humans; about 94% of the dog genome shows conserved synteny with mice, rats and humans.

Birds and human beings have three very similar genes affecting blunt limb buds.

Genetic similarity between humans and chimpanzees is between 96% and 99.4%

‘LUCA’, the ‘Last Universal Common Ancestor’ existed around four billion years ago.

We are probably descended from a mud-burrowing worm.

The common ancestor of all placental mammals was probably a small nocturnal shrew-like creature, snuffling about more than 80 million years ago.

Dogs, goldfish, and ferns have more chromosomes than human beings.

75% of our genetic make-up is the same as a pumpkin - 57% the same as a cabbage.

The split between plants and animals occurred about 1.6 billion years ago.

Around 100 genes in flowering plant Arabidopsis thaliana (Thale Cress) are closely related to human disease genes; and Arabidopsis has most of its genes in common with all other plants on Earth.

Source - Nature magazine, 2003.

Isn't it time for us to think scientifically, i.e. to question everything? Ideas that cannot be proven empirically and don't make sense must be treated as fairy tales. Good for children, bad for adults and certainly NOT to be used for running a country.

Friday, June 20, 2014 4:38:00 PM

Capt.Sudhir,

Thank you for your comments. They are always interesting and informative.

Even if the common ancestor of all mammals was a shrew like creature, there must have been a male and female shrew. Which came first the male or female shrew? I am not really seeking an answer. I am asking the question that should be asked.

There is asexual reproduction in nature. This means reproducing without mating. Aka same sex reproduction. Although very rare it does happen. In labs they have made it happen among some fungi. And the direction is female to male.

Surah 4:1 talks about the creation of a Nafs (the Self). Not Nas (human). It does not contradict what the evolutionary biologists say.

Syed Akbar

Friday, June 20, 2014 5:16:00 PM

 Capt Sudhir said...

Bro Syed, the ultimate common ancestor is the single cell. That cell replicated itself through a form of bio-chemical action, (sorry no sex as the Mullahs think was involved.)The cause might go all the way to the point when this universe came into existence 13++ billion years ago.

There is no outside cause except the cause itself. So consciousness is encapsulated in the universe just as it is encapsulated in all of us even in this human form.

That consciousness will also be encapsulated as we evolve. If you want to give IT a name that is fine.

But IT is not something outside.

The cause of the universe lies inside us, not outside.

...Certainly not in any Paradise with 72 virgins :-)

Now the strange think that most people seem to miss is the empirical proof that there is NO such thing as RACE when it comes to genetics and DNA of human beings. The difference of 0.1% is a story of our evolution. It cuts across all so called "races". (wonder what the Ketuanan guys make out of this?)

"All scientific signs point to the conclusion that race doesn't exist. The further scientists go in sequencing the genome - the complete catalogue of the genetic material found in every human cell - the more they realize there is no biological basis for our most contentious and divisive of social categories." - Eric Sorensen
Seattle Times science reporter Feb 11 2001.

BTW there is also no such think as an Islamic gene, Christian gene or Hindu gene as well... :-)

Friday, June 20, 2014 6:12:00 PM

adi said...

Capt Sudhir hasn't watch Jurassic Park. That's why he is oblivious of the female precedence.


Sorry Capt Sudhir, you posted some facts but you have absolutely no argument whatsoever against a "creator".


You want to talk about empirical evidence ? What your Copy and Paste forgot to mention and highlight is that :


The common genetics and common ancestor thing is what we call a tree of life (this is the biological term, not biblical). There is only ONE SINGLE tree of life on Earth. That means is only ONE SINGLE GENESIS OF LIFE on Earth.


Earth is 4 billion years old. The earliest evidence of life found is about 3.5 billion years (about 200 million years after the bombardment and Earth has cooled down). That means just as the condition is ready for life, life comes in.

This is very early that life came about, and it has been very long time since. So why is there only 1 genesis of life on earth ? If life is such a common natural phenomena; ie: sprung out naturally in the right environment such as on planet Earth; scientists would have expected multiple, even parallel, trees of life (like any result from a biological or chemical tests). The "right environment" has been there for along time for multiple parallel trees of life to exist.


To compound the the problem; science have not being able to observe or produce the genesis of life - on earth or elsewhere. We can understand how star is born and dies because we can observe the many of them in the night skies at various stages. To understand how life came about, scientist needs to observe a second genesis of life on earth. Until then, scientist cannot say with absolutely certainty how life came about. Again, this is not a statement against science, but of science.

These are major scientific problems and questions. It means, there are questions that have not been answered. We are no where near in making a statement such has 'nobody "created" us'.


"All the creatures on earth, and all the birds that fly with wings, are communities LIKE YOU. We did not leave anything out of this book. To their Lord, all these creatures will be summoned." Al-Quran 6:38


Science is not like what it was 100 years ago Capt Sudhir. Be careful in making dogmatic conclusions. Please catch up.

Saturday, June 21, 2014 3:28:00 AM

Capt Sudhir said...

Adi, I cannot fathom your disagreement to what I stated, you just reinforced what that article, summarised with your input.

Chickens occasionally lay egg which hatch without a male, So what is new?

It is known as Parthenogenesis.
Happens in most species naturally.

In mammals they are induced and they only produce females.

They are all part and parcel of evolution. Interesting though that the original Greek meaning of Parthenogenesis is "Virgin Birth"
:-)

If you want to Believe a Creator exists I am not going to say you cannot. Believe or disbelieve is your prerogative.

All I will say is that there is STILL no evidence other than circular logic, which is no logic at all.

A perfect creation by a Creator would not have to wait billions of years to coming into being.

Then the question will be who created the Creator. The easy and lazy answer will He/She/It is a perfect creation, that doesn't need to be created.(which paradoxically means there is no need for a Creator). If we start believing this, without proof and evidence, it leads to blind faith and dogma.

So really there is no progress going to be made going down that line.

All the advances we see today are because we (as a human specie) chose to not go down this mind numbing path.

It is only when we question everything and in the process of seeking those answers, do we evolve.

The Human specie has become dominant not because of brawn but because of brain. It is because our brain evolved than we are here today. If our forefathers had not evolved our brain, we would have been wiped out as specie.

The way for the brain to evolve is to use it productively. Meaning breaking out of shackles of Dogma.

I honestly do not know if there is a single Creator out there (perhaps I will never know) but you see that to me is more interesting. Now I am a seeker, and I get to experiment in all sorts of mind enhancing experiences of Consciousness.

I am on a journey and enjoying it. 

Saturday, June 21, 2014 11:47:00 AM

 adi said...

Capt Sudhir,

I did not disagree with the article you presented. I was complementing the facts provided. I thought that was obvious.

All those genetic similarities and single ancestor facts that the article presented, has simple scientific name - the tree of life.

The article omitted mentioning the scientific problem of (1) why only single occurrence of this tree ever occurred (2) how did it occur.

You are talking how to make coffee, I am talking about where the coffee bean came about.


The Quranic verse SAA quoted was "MIN NAFSIN WAHIDATIN".

The word at the beginning there is "NFS" - which has elementary connotation. It literally means "breath". Eastern cultures associate breath with life force. It also encompass that which has a respiratory system. Every living things has this system. A single cell organism has a respiratory system.

NAFSIN denotes that the subject is female. The female reproduce.

WAHIDATIN means one/single - Like the single tree of life/common ancestor.

NAFSIN WAHIDATIN means that single female life force or female respiration. A single cell reproducing would fit the description. Not Eve skipping in Eden wearing a leaf bikini.

"and created from her her spouse" - Asexual reproduction (which parthenogenesis falls under).

"and from the two men many and women" - Now the word used is RJL and NSAA. Denoting a complex organism of male and female.

SAA just quoted to you a passage of the Quran describing the evolution of life.
And which you posted an article from Nature magazine concurring it.
Which you without understanding, objected.

The female always comes before the male. This is how things are in nature. That's why you have a nipple. You were based on a female template before you became a male.


<< A perfect creation by a Creator would not have to wait billions of years to coming into being. >>

That is "YOUR perception of time". YOUR EXPERIENCE as s human. Do you understand ?

When you ask something like, "oh the created should not wait billions of years...", this is very shallow, ignorant and pretentious. You are basically saying that things in the universe should comply to your whims? jeez... (and i thought you want to expand your consciousness)

What is time for a photon ? It does not have time; the big bang occurred and the universe has already ended.



<< If you want to Believe a Creator exists... >>

Though you might not admit it or realize it - You yourself "chose" to believe. With partial facts presented from an incomplete article, without touching the full story of the single tree problem, you chose to believe that no creator was involved. Sorry dude, we have no scientific evidence how that genesis started - until we see a second genesis; which in 3.5 billion years have not occurred again. You conclusion from this partial evidence is just a belief. You are a "believer".

And there is more than just the single cell tree of life. Many other climatical and atmospheric factors, composition of the planet, distance of the earth to the sun, distance of the earth from the moon... Even the bing bang that produces an asymmetrical quantity of matter to antimatter (something that we cannot reproduce with our particle smashing today and literally would go against the "law of nature" as we know it); comes together to get us to the point we call the creation of life.

Had any of these laundry list of things didn't go as it did, you would not be here expanding you consciousness by skipping the genesis of the tree of life and jumping straight to evolution and parthenogenesis.

These are the signs that Quran ask us to see and understand. This is how we know the Creator is there.
Quran does not ask use to believe by being ignorant and having blind faith.
Quran asked us to see the ayats(signs) that are manifested within us and in the farthest horizons.


In the words of Morpheus : "I do not see coincidence. I see providence. I see purpose."

Saturday, June 21, 2014 3:20:00 PM

Tan Sri Muhyiddin Yassin tidak akan jadi Perdana Menteri

TIMBALAN Perdana Menteri, Tan Sri Muhyiddin Yassin sehingga kini telah kelihatan sudah tidak berselera lagi untuk menjadi Perdana Menteri menggantikan Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak.

Suasana dan perkembangan politik tanahair setakat ini tidak memberi sebarang tanda atau isyarat yang memungkinkan beliau bakal mengambil alih jawatan PM dalam masa terdekat atau pun selepas 2018.

Salah satu faktornya usia; Muhyiddin, 67 tahun lebih tua dari Najib, 61 tahun. Tambahan lagi, walau pun menjawat sebagai Timbalan Perdana Menteri; Muhyiddin hanya diberi peranan sebagai Menteri Pendidikan dalam kabinet.

Tan Sri Muhyiddin Yassin

Sedangkan kementerian lain yang dianggap lebih utama dan penting seperti Kementerian Dalam Negeri, Pertahanan dan Kewangan diserahkan kepada pemimpin lain yang lebih junior.

Dalam sejarah kabinet negara ini, Timbalan Perdana Menteri tidak pernah diberi porfolio Pendidikan. Allahyarham Tun Hussein Onn semasa menjadi TPM, beliau adalah Menteri Kewangan dalam kabinet Allahyarham Tun Razak. Begitu juga semasa Tun Dr Mahathir sebagai TPM kepada Hussein Onn, beliau memegang jawatan sebagai Menteri Perdagangan dan Perindustrian.

Bila Dr Mahathir menjadi PM, TPM Tun Musa Hitam diberi portfolio Menteri Dalam Negeri. Selepas Tun Musa letak jawatan dan diganti oleh Allahyarham Tun Ghafar Baba - Tun Ghafar diberi peranan sebagai Menteri Pembangunan Luar Bandar.

Begitulah seterusnya selepas Tun Ghafar, Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim sebagai TPM adalah merangkap Menteri Kewangan. Setelah Anwar dipecat dan digantikan dengan Tun Abdullah Ahmad Badawi; sekali lagi TPM Abdullah dilantik sebagai Menteri Dalam Negeri.

Bila Pak Lah pula jadi PM, beliau melantik Najib sebagai TPM merangkap Menteri Pertahanan. Dan Najib setelah mengambil alih jawatan PM telah menyerahkan kementerian Dalam Negeri dan Pertahanan kepada dua tokoh Naib Presiden Umno. Manakala kementerian Kewangan dipegangnya sendiri.

Ini tidaklah bererti kementerian Pendidikan tidak penting. Namun sebagai TPM, Tan Sri Muhyiddin sekurang-kurangnya ditempatkan di kementerian Dalam Negeri. Atau pun paling tidak sebagai Menteri Pertahanan.

Berdasarkan kenyataan di atas termasuk faktor usia serta suasana politik dalam Umno sekarang, peluang Tan Sri Muhyiddin menjadi PM ke 7 adalah tipis sekali.

Kemungkinan besar sejarah akan berulang buat kesekian kalinya di mana Muhyiddin akan menjadi Timbalan Perdana Menteri yang tidak akan jadi Perdana Menteri.

Musa Hitam, Tun Ghafar dan Anwar Ibrahim sudah tercatat dalam sejarah sebagai Timbalan Perdana Menteri yang tidak berpeluang menjadi Perdana Menteri.

Apakah Tan Sri Muhyiddin akan turut jejak mereka dan menjadi tokoh yang ke empat ?

Pulau Pisang masih dibawah kawalan Singapura

SULTAN Johor semasa merasmikan Dewan Negeri ke 13 pada Mei lalu bertitah agar kerajaan pusat membuat rayuan ke Mahkamah Keadilan Antarabangsa (ICJ) mengenai kes Pulau Batu Puteh yang kini menjadi milik Singapura.

Pada Mei 2008, ICJ telah membuat keputusan pulau yang dipenuhi dengan batu itu bukan milik Malaysia berdasarkan ia dibangunkan dan dibawah kawal selia republik itu sejak sekian lama. Sedangkan pada hakikat sejarah Pulau Batu Puteh adalah dibawah takluk jajahan Kesultanan Johor.

Malaysia kalah dalam kes ini disebabkan faktor ia adalah dalam kawalan dan penguasaan Singapura begitu lama sejak 1900. Bagaimanapun, ICJ membuat keputusan, Terumbu Karang Tengah atau Middle Rocks menjadi milik Malaysia. Dan satu lagi Tubir Selatan atau South Ledge akan ditentukan kemudian berdasarkan pulau atau perairan mana yang berdekatan.

Menurut laporan jarak antara Pulau Batu Puteh dan Terumbu Karang Tengah adalah terlalu hampir seperti ibarat melontar batu boleh sampai ke kawasan satu lagi. Ia terlalu dekat. Ertinya, segala aktiviti yang berlaku di Pulau Batu Puteh dapat dilihat dengan jelas dari Terumbu Karang Tengah.

Rumah Api

Sebab itu lah selepas ICJ membuat keputusan, bekas Menteri Luar Singapura Prof. S.Jayakumar, meluahkan rasa kesal Terumbu Karang Tengah gagal menjadi milik Singapura. Manakala Menteri Luar Malaysia ketika itu Dr Rais Yatim, menyifatkan keputusan ICJ sebagai "Win-win" pada kedua pihak.

Seperti biasa selepas kes ini menjadi liputan meluas dan mendapat berbagai reaksi dikalangan rakyat, maka timbul pula tentang perihal nasib sebuah pulau lagi iaitu Pulau Pisang yang berada diperairan Johor yang terletak 5km dari bandar Benut, Pontian. Di pulau itu terdapat sebuah Rumah Api.

Apakah pisang akan berbuah dua kali ? Ini berdasarkan sehingga kini Pulau Pisang yang tidak berpenghuni mempunyai sebuah Rumah Api yang dikawal selia oleh kerajaan Singapura. Singapura mengakui pulau itu adalah milik Malaysia. Namun segala aktiviti dan seliaan pulau itu adalah dibawah kawalan republik itu.  Dan ia adalah kawasan larangan.

Menurut penduduk berdekatan ada melihat kerja-kerja pembesaran dan pelebaran tanah disekitar kawasan Rumah Api itu. Di pulau itu juga terdapat kemudahan bagi helikopter mendarat.

Sekiranya kerajaan Malaysia tidak berbuat apa-apa untuk membuktikan penguasaannya terhadap kedaulatan Pulau Pisang dengan terus membiarkan Singapura menguasainya, maka tidak mustahil Pulau Pisang akan menerima nasib yang sama seperti Pulau Batu Puteh.

Dalam kes Pulau Batu Puteh seperti juga dalam kes tuntutan Pulau Sipadan dan Ligitan; faktor penguasaan dan seliaan disatu pihak akan menentukan hak pemilikkan.

Quran : The Most Beautiful Recitation / Heart Touching

Building The Boeing 777

Logo dan simbol Boko Haram

Krisis politik Thailand

Anti Islamic Metro Bus Ads

More anti-Islamic Metro bus ads on the way

inShare

Thursday - 5/15/2014, 2:49pm  ET

By Michelle Basch

More Reports

The ads will appear on 20 Metro buses for about four weeks. (pamelageller.com)

WASHINGTON -- A group that got in a free-speech court fight with Metro a few years ago is back with new eyebrow-raising ads on the sides of buses.

In 2012, Metro tried to block a group called the American Freedom Defense Initiative from placing anti-Jihad ads in the Metro system.

Metro argued that they could be a threat to public safety. In the end, Metro lost a federal court fight that cost it $35,000.

Now, AFDI is back with a new ad on Metrobuses that includes a photo of Adolf Hitler and reads "Islamic Jew-Hatred: It's in the Quran."

The group's co-founder, Pamela Geller, says it's a response to ads by the group American Muslims for Palestine that appeared on Metrobuses last month.

On Thursday, the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) issued a news release responding to the ads.

Anyone who can "verify the inaccuracy of a new anti-Muslim bus advertisement" will recieve a free copy of the Quran, says the release.

CAIR says the ad's claims that the Quran encourages Muslim hatred toward Jews is inaccurate.

"Anyone who reads the Quran will discover that it honors Jews and Christians for believing in one God and calls on all believers to live in peace and harmony," said CAIR National Executive Director Nihad Awad.

Metro confirms to WTOP that the ads are scheduled to appear on 20 Metrobuses for a total of four weeks.

Follow @WTOP on Twitter and WTOP on Facebook.

© 2014 WTOP. All Rights Reserved.

Munshi Abdullah, "Keling" dan "Benggali"

 Satu perbahasan menarik berkaitan tajuk di atas yang dipetik dari blog OSTB.

 Selamat membaca.

Abdullah Munsyi was not Malay by descent , although there may be many Malays who would like to believe he was a Malay .

Abdullah was born into an early immigrant family that we today would call Indian-Muslim .

At home they all spoke Tamil , and would read and write in Tamil .

This picture is not dissimilar to the practice of many indian-muslim families in the country today , for they speak Tamil at home too .

Nonetheless Abdullah did not use the term Indian-muslim when categorizing his family and community , for this term was never in vogue then .

He used the word "keling" , a word that was perfectly acceptable and was in use throughout the Malay Sultanate era in 15th century , down to the Portuguese and Dutch period from16 to 18th century , right up to Abdullah's time in 19th century .

Abdullah received his early education in Tamil . He was tutored to speak and write good Tamil . He read Tamil literature . He learned arithmetic and Indian business practices in Tamil .

At the same time he was taught to read Quran and learn Arabic .

It was later on that he was sent to read and write Malay under a few reputable Malay scholars who lived in Melaka town .

It was in this way that Abdullah was introduced to abundant classical Malay literature , and which he came to love .

So whatever skills he had in the Malay language were acquired .

Malay was not his mother tongue .

~ Datuk Zahari A. Rashid

Thursday, May 15, 2014 2:13:00 PM

 Syed Akbar Ali said...

Datuk Zahari Rashid,

Thank you for your comments. However I have to point out a few things.

You can travel to Tamil Nadu in India today which is home to 80 million Tamils and ask them, 'Are you a keling?' or 'Do you know what is a keling?' They will be puzzled. 80 million Tamils in India today will not know the term 'keling'.

You may have better luck (not much better though) if you asked them 'Who were the Kalingas in ancient India?'

Tamil is listed as an "ancient language" like Hebrew. It is also among the oldest written languages in the world. Hence it is an impossibility that Abdullah Munshi's family would address themselves as 'keling' at home. They would call themselves Tamils.

Abdullah bin Abdul Kadir or Abdullah Munshi was definitely a writer in the Malay language. He would not be surprised if later in history some people elevated him to be the "father" of modern Malay literature.

But I think Abdullah Munshi would be amused that latter day Malays would say that he was a Malay by race.

Or that others may come along and counter argue that Abdullah Munshi was not a Malay. A waste of time.

Also at that time there was no New Economic Policy so Abdullah Munshi would have had less need to be classified a bumiputra and things like that. Bumiputra itself is a Tamil Sanskrit word.

In Malacca where I spent my teenage years in the 70s (about 120 years after Abdullah Munshi died) I still heard local verbal folklore about Abdullah Munshi from older people.

People said that he learnt to write Tamil by writing in the sand on the beach. His father told him, 'Your finger must become as sharp as your tongue'. From this story I also understood that the narrations about Abdullah Munshi being of Arab descent (from Yemen as usual) could not be true. I am quite sure Abdullah Munshi was a 100% Tamil by DNA till his dying day.

Coming back to "keling", the Kalingas were an Indian Empire quite far from the Tamils of Southern India. They were located further up the east Indian coast. Here is some history :

Begin quote :

Kalinga (Oriya: କଳିଙ୍ଗ, Devnagari: कलिङ्ग, Telugu: కళింగ) was an early republic in central-eastern India, which comprised most of the modern state of Odisha, northern parts of Andhra Pradesh and a portion of Madhya pradesh

Kharavela was the warrior emperor of Kalinga. He was responsible for the propagation of Jainism in the Indian Subcontinent but his importance is neglected in many accounts of Indian history.

According to the Hathigumpha inscription near Bhubaneswar, Odisha, he attacked Rajagriha in Magadha, thus inducing the Indo-Greek king Demetrius to retreat to Mathura.

Cont..part 2

Thursday, May 15, 2014 3:56:00 PM

 Syed Akbar Ali said...

Cont part 2

But this inscription doesn't mean that he merged Magadha in Kalinga. But this shows his strong ties with the Shunga ruler Pushyamitra and Agnimitra who have just started their rule after uprooting the Mauryans.

The Kharavelan Jain empire had a formidable maritime empire with trading routes linking it to Sri Lanka, Burma, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Borneo, Bali, Sumatra and Java.

*****Colonists from Kalinga settled in Sri Lanka, Burma, as well as the Maldives and Malay Archipelago.****


The term "Keling".

Long past the end of the Kalinga Kingdom in 1842 CE, derivatives from its name continued to be used as the general name of India in what are now Malaysia and Indonesia.

"Keling" was and still is in use in these countries as a word for "Indian", though since the 1960s Indians came to consider it offensive.

It may be due to "Sadhabas" (or Sadhavas) were ancient mariners from the Kalinga empire, which roughly corresponds to modern Odisha, India.

They used ships called Boitas to travel to distant lands such as Bali, Java, Sumatra, and Borneo, in Indonesia, and to Sri Lanka, Malaysia, Persia, China, Greece and Africa to carry out trade and for cultural expansion. - End of quote.

In Malaya the term "keling" is a left over from a very much earlier history when the Kalinga Kings colonised the Nusantara all the way to Bali.

The Tamils including Abdullah Munshi were latecomers who inherited the name 'keling' from the Malays who already knew the Kalingas.

Interestingly the Malay language is also historically familiar with the term "benggali" which is now wrongly used for Punjabis.

Bengal and Bangladesh lie on the extreme east coast of India whereas Punjab is on the border with Pakistan.

Benggalis come from Bengal (India) and Bangladesh. Bangla-desh literally means 'Desa orang Benggali' or the Land of the Benggalis.

But why does the Malay language address the Punjabis as Benggalis? Surely the Punjabis never adressed themselves as 'saya benggali'.

The reason is again because the Benggalis had a much earlier history with the Nusantara that precedes the arrival of the Punjabis in this region.

When the British brought the Punjabis, the Malays called them 'benggali'.

If you go to Punjab today and ask them if they are benggalis, it will surprise the punjabis too.

Regards.

Syed Akbar

Thursday, May 15, 2014 3:56:00 PM